Evan Van Hook: Talking Sustainability with our Chief Sustainability Officer

When you’ve been a Chief Sustainability Officer for Honeywell for almost twenty years, you learn a few things. Especially about how to stay sustainable -- while still staying profitable. In this episode, we interview our own CSO Evan Van Hook. He talks about everything from the impact of climate change on global security to the most common sustainability mistake he sees organizations make.  Listen now!

Episode Transcript

Introduction (00:02):

Welcome to forging connections, a podcast from Honeywell about the convergence of IT and operational technology for industrial companies. We'll talk about the future of productivity, sustainability, safety, and cyber security. Let's get connected.

Tim Verras (00:19):

Hi everybody. I am sitting here today with Evan van hook. Honeywell's chief sustainability officer. Evan, How are you?

Evan Van Hook (00:28):

I'm great. Thank you. How are you?

Tim (00:30):

I'm I'm great. So, so Evan, I understand that you have just been nominated as one of the top 50 professionals in ESG from, uh, constellation group.

Evan Van Hook (00:40):

Yeah, that was, uh, it was really a very, um, nice for them to have done that. And it was, uh, interesting when you see the list, how many of my, um, sort of dear professional friends are on it as well? So yeah, I'm actually kind of excited about that.

Tim (00:56):

That's awesome. And, you know, just for people that might not be aware, what, what what's what's life like for a chief sustainability officer at a big industrial company like Honeywell?

Evan Van Hook (01:06):

Oh, that's a, that's a great question. You know, I think you really sort of have to start, you know, believe it or not with, uh, some of the fundamentals and you start with the notion of what sustainability is. And I always go back to sort of the UN's definition, which they developed back in 1987. And essentially the definition of sustainability is that each generation has to figure out how to satisfy its own needs in a way that leaves an environment that is clean enough for future generations to satisfy their needs. And when I think when you think about it, that's, I hope just sort of a uni, universally accepted premise. It's wonderful to have a great life, but you need to do it in a way that future generations can have that great life as well. And the reason why I think you sort of have to start there is then you have to say, well, okay, how does a large industrial company fit with that notion of sustainability?

Evan Van Hook (02:23):

And I think first of all, there is tremendous understanding now, both from society in general, but also very much so for this company that we have to align our operations with societal expectations. And then in fact, and I'd be happy to talk about this more for some, uh, company like Honeywell that really innovates in this space. That's actually a tremendous opportunity. This is sort of how the world is viewing itself now that we have to be responsible about the environment. And it just so happens that Honeywell innovates tremendously in this space. So when you talk about, well, where do I fit in? I, uh, started out at this company in 2004, and that's when we started our specific sustainability program and really worked with our senior leadership to think about how can we look at some of our top potential impacts on the environment and start reducing them.

Evan Van Hook (03:32):

And, you know, if you wanna talk about what I do day to day, we set up a program to reduce our greenhouse gases. And we have reduced our greenhouse gases by more than 90% on a normalized basis now. And you look around for any large old industrial company that is a huge amount. We've also improved our energy efficiency by about 70%. So I will say that a lot of what I did for the first, you know, 14, 15 years I was here was, was focus on those. And obviously there were other things that we've done as well, but that was, you know, one of the big focuses, but then what's been really interesting in the last couple of years is the realization of how much of our R and D revenue business sort of profile is very much in this space. It's, it's about 60% of our R and D now is focused on ESG related products and services. So the last couple of years, I really spend a lot more time than I did in the past meeting with shareholders, meeting with customers, um, and talking to people like Bill Kirkos and, uh, Bevin in communications. And of course, uh, Darius to sort of bring that sustainability, um, performance that we've had into our overall messaging about our, you know, about, about these incredible products that we have. So it's been very exciting, but it's sort of, uh, had that development over the last couple of years.

Tim (05:19):

Yeah. So, I mean, you know, one, one might think that it was very kind of focused on the, all the manufacturing redo, but, uh, in actuality it sounds like that that's an important part of it, but there's also, uh, uh, things in messaging and marketing and communications and it's kind of a more holistic approach to, to the role.

Evan Van Hook (05:37):

Absolutely, absolutely. Just one sort of very little interesting factoid in there, and it's more complex than this, but I think it's, you know, it's, it's verifiable our internal, uh, greenhouse gas footprint right now is about 2 million metric tons. And that's our own operations. It's not our scope three, which we can get into with all that means, but about 2 million metric tons, just one of our products that we've innovated in this area, the solstice line of low global warming potential refrigerants, we estimate that that has avoided more than 260 million metric tons wow. Of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere. So that just gives you, you know, some kind of a picture of the relative, you know, dynamic between our internal performance and these incredible products that we develop.

Tim (06:31):

Absolutely. And, you know, we, we kind of have a, a unique view here at Honeywell, cuz not only are we doing it for ourselves and our own operations, but we make a whole suite of software, hardware, sensors and everything that helps our customers also kind of meet their, their carbon goals. So we're, we're kind of, uh, existing in two worlds at once. And uh, to that end, it actually kind of surprised me that you joined the company in 2004, that seems early for an industrial company. And I understand that Honeywell, uh, was kind of one of the first major industrial companies to sort of look at a, a carbon neutral pledge and, and uh, you know, really making an important facet of the business. Talk to me a little bit about how that came to fruition.

Evan Van Hook (07:17):

Certainly. Yeah, it was, um, early on and uh, particularly, um, uh, sort of for climate legal, uh, nerds 2004 was before the Kyoto protocol, which was really the first global agreement about reducing greenhouse gases before that even came into effect. And so this was really kinda pre regulation pre anything pretty much. And I think that it, it really does come back to that corporate culture. One of the things that I feel really strongly about is that if you are going to affect organizational change, it has to be culturally driven and particularly in a, a large industrial setting. And I think we have such a good analog with the quality revolution of the 20th century, cuz that was a situation where mass manufacturing had developed so quickly and people then realize that, wait a second, we have to figure out how to drive a culture of quality.

Evan Van Hook (08:33):

So all of these participants in this marketing exercise understand that they need to generate a, a high quality outcome. And so you have tons of thinking on this, you have people that are getting their PhDs in this and, and, you know, lean certifications just focused on how do we get this whole organization to generate quality outcomes? Well, I actually think we really need something similar in sustainability. We need to not just look at sustainability as something that a company does, but it actually has to sort of be embedded into the core processes of the organization, such that it's just part of how business is being done. And we have focused a lot on that. And one of the reasons I sort of mentioned all of that was that when the company decided that it wanted to start this pathway of becoming a more sustainable company and then also helping our customers with sustainability, we really sort of made that part of our cultural, uh, bedrock and CEO at the time.

Evan Van Hook (09:59):

And continuing to Darius issued, what's called the sys sustainable opportunity policy, which is hanging in every one of our facilities globally signed by Darius and signed by the, the site leader. And, you know, that's a, that's a policy, but I, if you read it, it really does explain how we integrate sustainability basically into everything that we do. And, and I think the company and the senior leadership sort of understood that that was gonna be a critical transformation back in 2004. And like I said, for a number of years, it was, it was internally focused and people really started to take notice. I, uh, I meet with a lot of government officials just through my job and you start telling them what you're accomplishing and they're just, they're so interested. But then as we moved into the, uh, you know, the later two thousands or, you know, we're getting close to where we are now, this incredible tie in to our innovation space. So, you know, it was, it was a really great insight that the company had. And I think it was very much driven by that at the time to say we are gonna make this part of the culture.

Tim (11:23):

Yeah. I think a, a great analog, I mean, to, to, to your point about quality is, you know, what Toyota did in the, in the eighties with Kaizen and, and just baking that into the very DNA of what it meant to be Toyota. I think that that's kind of what we're doing only for sustainability

Tim (11:41):

And, and, you know, I, I think had o-over that time, obviously a lot more industrial companies have, have started to adopt this, uh, either because of their own volition or because there, there are now increasing demands both from, uh, local governments to investors and, and so forth. So talk to me a little bit about how, how that's changed. Cause we hear a lot now about how investors are actually asking companies like Honeywell, how, how do we want you to be more sustainable? And we want you to prove it. Yeah. So how, how, how has that dynamic changed?

Evan Van Hook (12:17):

Yeah, that has been just a, a tremendous evolution. And I will say that probably the most important driver initially to get things started, I gotta hand it to the, institutional investors, the institutional investors started to put this very high up in their priorities of what they were expecting from issuers. And once that started, you sort of got a whole lot of other things came along with that. Then you started getting analysts who would look at companies and rate them. So these investors had something to look at to compare. And then once you had that, then you had non-governmental organizations who could look at these, these analyst reports as well, and they could be driving, uh, lawmakers. And that created a lot of sort of regulatory developments. So a lot of things have come together to, to, to, to really heighten the importance of sustainability.

Evan Van Hook (13:34):

But I, I really kind of do have to hand it to the institutional investors to sort of have gotten the ball rolling. And as to the accuracy that cannot be overstated. One of the biggest things that is happening now. And one of the reasons I think Honeywell is so exciting is that we've really moved from that phase where this was sort of purely voluntary activity to where it's an absolute expectation of your stakeholders. And then once you start saying that you are doing things in the sustainability or ESG world, then there is a tremendous premium on making sure that those statements are accurate. When you think about the amount of infrastructure that's in place to ensure that financial data are accurate, that gives you an idea of what the scale of this demand will be. And that's one of the reasons, again, why one of the things that I think you know is so exciting about Honeywell is we are diversified.

Evan Van Hook (14:48):

And frankly, I think we're a really dynamite in a lot of areas. And what that translates into is that we innovate across a very broad swath of what's needed for sustainability. I mean, when you think about it, you know, the first thing you need to do is you need to know what you have, what are you doing? Do I, am I using a ton of water? Do I emit a whole lot of greenhouse gases? You don't wanna just do a cookie cutter thing. You wanna know what does my operations do? Well, we have all kinds of, you know, through forge through our building management systems, uh, through rebellion that help people understand their baseline to start out with. Then we have tons of consulting and auditing sort of expertise that help them say, okay, now, you know where you're at, here's help to make you change.

Evan Van Hook (15:44):

Then we have all kinds of things that actually generate the change like solstice. We just announced not too long ago, a major agreement with whole foods where they're gonna retrofit about a hundred other stores with our solstice refrigerant, and they're gonna be cutting their greenhouse gases in those stores by like 60 or 70%. And then we've got, you know, a lot of other things, including again, through forge, which helps you actually pinpoint where in your facility, you can take action and, and also to control the building. So it's most efficient. And then finally, what you just mentioned, the, the system of record issues. You, you need a place that we're, we're a huge organization. We have almost, you know, seven, 800 facilities. And, you know, you're not gonna crack this nut by having everybody in their own little facility type in things into Excel spreadsheets. And that's just not gonna work. We need those systems that allow you to efficiently pull these data, manage it across portfolios, make decisions about how you're gonna operate those facilities and then track those numbers so that they can be turned over to the S E C and all the other, you know, parties that are asking for them.

Tim (17:08):

Yeah. And, you know, I, I think it's only going to, uh, increase from here. I mean, if you think about like at the, at the time that we're recording right now, uh, Davos is going on and exactly, you know, the, the, the number one topic this year at Davos is sustainability. So, right. Uh, do you think that's gonna have sort of a Kyoto, like effect on the industry and kind of give it another big push forward now that you know, the world's nations are kind of meeting to really solve this post Paris climate accord?

Evan Van Hook (17:37):

I, I do believe that, um, things like Davos are incredibly important. One of the things that we have learned through policy making is that something that's as big as a global environmental issue like climate. And before that, like the ozone, uh, layer it's, these are extremely hard issues to address. And frankly, government absolutely cannot do it on its own. And what you need is a reinforcing mechanism of government policy, but then also, uh, civil society in terms of corporate civil society. You know, most of the emissions are controlled by corporations, and most of the innovation comes from corporations. So they need to be deep participants in making choices around this and shaping their business, and then the last piece being non corporate civil society. And so you see things like the Paris agreement, which, you know, is Essent is, is a essentially governmental, uh, pronouncement.

Evan Van Hook (19:02):

But, you know, we have seen too many times that that is not going to be strong enough on its own. And we need these really strong civil society mechanisms to be coming into play, continuing the conversation, setting new objectives and new, uh, sort of aspirations driving progress. Um, so yeah, I think it's, uh, I think it's really, really important now whether Davos itself, like just alone would be sufficient. I don't think so, because what I really think is it's that constantly reinforcing mechanism of civil and, uh, and governmental stakeholders who are, are really gonna kind of keep, keep each other moving and keep each other honest. So mm-hmm <affirmative>, but I'm certainly very happy that, uh, Davos is very focused on it this year.

Tim (19:59):

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And let let's, let's highlight something, uh, that you said, uh, a couple of minutes ago, you mentioned innovation and, uh, I know that we've talked a little bit about some of the refrigerants we're working on, but given that, you know, this podcast is gonna publish in July, which is, uh, uh, official energy independence, uh, month mm-hmm <affirmative>, uh, what, what are some, what are some other technologies Honeywell or otherwise that are really kind of exciting you around energy independence and especially in relation to, to industrials?

Evan Van Hook (02:20):

Yeah, sure. No, cuz this is a very exciting time. One of the things I think, um, that is interesting to watch, cuz I speak to a lot of our customers and some of them have been doing this for a while, but some are sort of just getting into it now and they do kind of have a little bit of that deer in the headlight syndrome that say, you know, what, what am I going to, how do I do this? And I really do think that a lot of companies still suffer from that eating the elephant syndrome, where they think, oh my gosh, if I can't swallow that beast in one bite, I'm just not gonna get started. And so the reason I say that, I say, I think it's like super important to realize that there are tons of technologies and processes right now that can make a tremendous impact on your greenhouse gases.

Evan Van Hook (21:31):

Just proof of that is, you know, Honeywell has managed to reduce its greenhouse gas intensity by more than 90% by definition, we had to have done that with existing technologies. Right. And so first of all, I think there, you just, you can't ignore what exciting things are in the market now. And we could, you know, go over them, but you know, just what we've, we've done about 7,000 projects by the way. And so you could look down that list of projects and just see what the opportunities are, but it is, you know, like now we're at that point where innovation is going to absolutely be key to achieving the, the Paris, uh, agreement, um, objectives. And some of the most interesting sort of, uh, technological developments that Honeywell is very deeply involved in is certainly batteries storage is going to be key if your storing well, that allows you to rely much more heavily on renewable energy because you can generate the energy while the sun is shining and you can use it and also use it to charge your battery.

Evan Van Hook (22:55):

And then when the sun goes down, you can use that stored energy to power, what you need. And that's gonna be just, you know, a key to making renewables, really work. And Honeywell has been, we're already doing a lot with batteries, but they've got some really great kind of, um, innovations that they're working on, particularly on flow batteries, which would be really large scale, uh, power, uh, storage units. Um, that's a really exciting one carbon capture and storage is very exciting. It's already a proven technology. I think, where we'll see developments are increased efficiency and also better options for what to do with the CO2 once it's captured. And then things like, like, uh, well, and this is already available, but I think it's gonna be developing like crazy are things like our, uh, rebellion gas detections. One of the most important greenhouse gases is methane.

Evan Van Hook (24:04):

And our rebellion technology is one of the leaders in being able to detect fugitive emissions of methane along an entire gas line, for example, and just the impact of finding that and fixing it is just huge. So we think that's very exciting and, you know, frankly, I think it's in the digital connected cloud space like forge and, uh, the things that HCE is working on. That's where I think, you know, there's gonna be kind of that almost, you know, hidden treasure. That's gonna be kind of underlying all these systems, pulling the data, allowing you to make choices more effectively and more and more efficiently. And by the way, that's what ties together, all these other technologies. Cause what you want is like for something like storage, it's not just, oh, you know, use the battery when it's dark. It's also when it's peaking, you know, electricity tends to be much dirtier during peak peak periods because you've, you know, gen you've, you've kicked in all your lower cost and lower emitting generators and then you need more. So you have to start kicking in the ones that generate more emissions. If you can start shaving those peaks with batteries and then doing that through a real connected cloud enterprise, you're so much more effective, cuz that way, you know, all of these energy sources can be deployed at the time when they're most efficient, at least emitting. So

Tim (25:56):

Yeah. So it's a closed loop system.

Evan Van Hook (25:58):

Yeah, exactly.

Tim (26:00):

Yeah. That's that's uh, that's fascinating. Yeah. So I mean, we hear it here at HCE all the time, uh, around, you know, I don't think it's any surprise for, to any executive that they, they need to and want to do more around their sustainability. But the refrain we constantly hear is I'd love to do more, but I don't know what I have in my environment. I don't, I, I can't act until, you know, you don't know what you don't know and right. And so I think it's such a, even though it's not particularly, uh, sexy to talk about, it's just installing the sensors and identifying just what's in your environment can be a huge benefit to, to actually realizing that, that future.

Evan Van Hook (26:38):

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. It may not be sexy. I'm not sure. I, I think it's pretty sexy. So <laugh>

Tim (26:44):

I do, I do too, but not everyone else.

Evan Van Hook (26:46):


Tim (26:47):

And on, on the other side of innovation, you know, we hear a lot about, uh, sustainability from a, uh, climate perspective. Mm-hmm <affirmative> we hear a lot about climate change from an ethical perspective, but uh, one thing that's always fascinated me the, the last time I saw you talk, you were sitting down with Janet DePalo mm-hmm <affirmative> and you know, she, she brought up an a point that I've never thought about before, which is that climate change is actually a, a, a grave global security threat. Uh, and, and so it, it brings in a different element. Talk to me a little bit about what she meant by

Evan Van Hook (27:21):

That. Yeah. It's such a tremendously important. I'm not here to pitch my book, but I happen to have a, have had a book come out on climate in 2019. And I talk a lot about this. So it's something, you know, certainly have thought a lot about. And it's the department of defense of the United States and many other companies consider climate change to be one of the top security challenges of our day. And when you think about it, what, what do we anticipate that climate change will bring? If you just look at things like, you know, atmospheric impacts all of a sudden countries that may already be challenged with stability already, may all of a sudden, maybe have a lot more floods or have a lot more droughts. Well, what happens when that happens is, you know, you have conflict, you have migration, you have people leaving newly desertified areas and moving into others, which creates additional conflicts.

Evan Van Hook (28:33):

You have food shortages and all of that. It sort of spawned this notion of a climate refugee. The refugee crisis in the world right now is just it's it's of such monumental proportions. A significant portion of that can probably be tied to climate change. And as climate change gets worse, then that's gonna be, get, that's going to get worse. Then you think about things like, you know, one other impacts of climate change is, uh, desert, uh, is, uh, sorry, acidification of the oceans. Well, that's going, you know, potentially to reduce, uh, to reduce the viability of a lot of fish stocks, which a lot of people rely on for, for, uh, for, for, uh, for food. And so all of these, uh, sort of aspects also, um, if you are in a situation where you have an agreement around climate change, people agree that it is critically important for all of us.

Evan Van Hook (29:44):

And then there are disputes over our people all complying with their commitments and that's gonna be, uh, you know, a big source. That was one of the principle negotiating, uh, sort of, um, challenges around Paris was what are gonna be the levels of verification. And if all of a sudden people are saying, Hey, we're, we feel like we're doing our part, but another country is not doing their part. And so we're all gonna suffer for that. That's, that's a generative drain generator of, of, of, of conflict. So there are a lot of ways in which climate change can, uh, can increase friction, increase human suffering, and that results in, you know, in conflict and security, uh, risk.

Tim (30:42):

So, so let me, let me just ask you, uh, kind of a, a very basic question. Can we, can we dig ourselves out of it?

Evan Van Hook (30:48):

Can we that's, uh, you know, boy, that's such a great question. And I mean, I, I would like to say unequivocally yes. And I would start by saying, let's do everything that we can right now. And I, I mean, when you think about it again, and we had some special opportunities, but as we did those nearly 7,000 projects, we ended up saving ourselves about a hundred million dollars on an annualized basis, which means every year that those projects are in operation, which we hope is for many years, that's another a hundred million dollars. So, and the reason I say that, and also, if you look at sort of marginal costs of carbon abatement curves, they often show that many of the options are a bargain, you know, that we should be out there doing them. And my, you know, take, I mean, look, we had our first, you know, global, uh, environmental UN conference in 1972.

Evan Van Hook (32:05):

And there was a lot of talk about the potential risks of, you know, of climate change. And unfortunately here it is 50 years later. And now finally in 2015, we have a global, real global agreement on climate change where we, we can't drag our feet anymore. Let's put it that way. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. But I think if we get out there and do the things that we can do, then, you know, we don't necessarily now, you know, I can't say, oh, that's gonna get us there magically by any means, but there is a lot that we can do. And by the way, as we do that every year, there's more innovation every year. Every year, there's new things that come out, new ideas. And so, yeah, I just think we gotta stop talking and start doing it.

Tim (32:59):

<laugh> yeah. And I mean, to that end, I think we've seen, uh, that, that kind of hopeful message play out across the industrials as well. And they, they're now starting to hire sustainability, focused people at oil and gas companies at, uh, um, manufacturing companies that all these other companies that traditionally wouldn't have, those types of folks around are now becoming intrinsic in into the way that they, that they operate. And, you know, that, that tells me that, you know, the, the kinds of people that are, are, are coming to these companies are changing. The skillsets are changing. Um, I mean, do you see that trend continuing?

Evan Van Hook (33:38):

Absolutely. And I, I think that that's such a good point, one, my guess is, and I'm not saying that, oh, we can, you know, do it do away immediately with fossil fuels. I'm not sort of getting into that. But one thing that people have pointed out is a lot of the skill that are currently in our energy industry are a lot of the same skillsets that you need for a carbon neutral economy. And so, and this is why I also think it's, you, you really cannot underestimate the notion of a just transition. I think that there's a lot of individuals and companies that will need to make changes. The sooner they sort of accept that and start thinking in that way. But so many are a lot of, you know, my colleagues that I work with in other companies are from energy companies, whether they're oil and gas or, uh, electricity generation or distribution or natural gas.

Evan Van Hook (34:51):

And they're all thinking about this. And, uh, but you know, and they have a lot of fantastic skillset that will be needed. We certainly can't say, Hey, you know, make them go away or something. These are, these are huge intellectual assets. It's just that they need to be shifting their product towards something that is, is, is more sustainable. And, and, uh, and I think, I think they will, I think we need the really need to pay attention to that. Just transition, make sure that people don't have that so much of that concern of like, Hey, this transition means I'm gonna lose my job so much as to say, where can these skill sets be utilized in a, in a more green economy? So mm-hmm,

Tim (35:42):

<affirmative>, mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah, that's, that's a great point. And I, I think, um, I'm, I'm a bit of a, a futurist, uh, myself. Oh, oh, wow. And so I always like to ask this question, uh, to, to the people I interview, where, where do you see industrial companies in 10 years, 50 years from now, uh, and, and how they, uh, look at and approach their, uh, carbon neutral sustainability energy consumption. What, what do you think is gonna be the, the shift that happens?

Evan Van Hook (36:14):

Yeah, I think that, I, I think that what will happen is that anyone operating or working in an organization, or even an individual sustainability will just be an inherent part of that, of the decisions that you make as you design products, as you design, think of all the considerations that you have when you are designing a new workspace, a new factory, a new office building, and it will just become natural to say, well, okay, how am I making this the most efficient least emitting, uh, and not just within the four walls, but how am I gonna be managing, uh, logistics in the least impactful way as I design my products, how am I going to be? And you're seeing so much of this now, how am I gonna be selecting inputs that generate the lowest emissions? And I think that's where, you know, right now, there, there is a tremendous amount of pressure to get things done and that's, that's important. But I think that transition to say again, you know, before we always looked at quality, I wanna really think, am I getting, you know, good stuff and putting out good stuff? And I think it's gonna be just as like, well, yeah, I got all this stuff and it's, I think I made it the most energy efficient and low emission that I can, you know, so I think that's, that's a transition. So

Tim (37:47):

That's, that's great. And I do you, if you had a, a one piece of advice to give a newly minted sustainability focused person at an organization, maybe at an organization that hasn't had one before, what, what would that piece of advice be?

Evan Van Hook (38:03):

Yeah, well, I think that the first thing that you gotta do is you gotta get your hands around what you have. Some people start sort of at the other end of the barn and they say, oh, this, you know, public protocol is saying, I should report this, this, this, and this, without ever even knowing what, you know, figure out what it is that you have, where, where are you making an impact? Where, where are you where you having a, uh, your most negative environmental impacts or where you have the most choices that you can make. And, you know, start there, start with, with, with your makeup and then go from there and believe me, you'll be able to fit into those protocols down the line, but you really gotta get a hand hands around, you know, that's where the first investment and time and understanding should be. Cause, you know, it's, you do see, I think a lot of people just chasing the protocols as opposed to really saying, you know, this is what I have and what I can do about it. And then I can tell that story and, uh, you know, and that's ex that's exciting. I think that's the way to do it. And, and ultimately that's the best thing for, for the environment. Mm-hmm,

Tim (39:27):

<affirmative>, that's great. All right. Well, uh, Evan, I think wraps up our time today. Thank you so much for, for your time and for your, for your great insights. I think this is gonna be, uh, a great podcast.

Evan Van Hook (39:39):

Well, thank you. This was really enjoyable and, uh, great questions. And I appreciated talking to you.

Tim (39:44):

All right, Evan. Thank you so much. Bye.

Evan Van Hook (39:45):

Thank you. Bye, Bye.

Outro (39:49):

This has been forging connections, a podcast from Honeywell. You can follow Honeywell forge on LinkedIn and download new episodes from our website at www.honeywellforge.ai. Thanks for listening.